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LOVE SAFETY
NET
Transcript
of August 10, 2009, program
“Truly Scrumptious Otter Medicine”
STEVE: Hi everyone. Welcome to The Love
Safety Net.
KIM: I’m Kim.
STEVE: And I’m Steve.
Today’s show is titled, “Truly Scrumptious
Otter Medicine”, and I’m sure that has more than just a few of
you curious.
KIM: Yes, in today’s show, what we want to
do is give you a very clear picture on how being a loving and
fun parent is actually the best way to be attractive to your
partner or to attract the relationship you want—I would say even
if you are single and you don’t want kids.
STEVE: That’s right. But first we need to
say a big thank you to everyone who has bought Kim’s new eBook—Emotional
Stupidity. Kim, do you want to mention anything about that
before we get stuck into the show.
KIM: Yeah, I guess I better. (laughing)
I have a bit of an apology. I mean, it’s all been fixed up now,
I think. A few people wrote in with typos and a few corrections
and grammar mistakes that were in the book. I guess I should
explain a little bit that my proofreader has been busy. And
also with the last book I put out I sent you all to the snow,
didn’t I? I got everybody out of the house for a week to get
the book finished.
STEVE: That’s right.
KIM: Because it’s really pretty emotional
writing books, and particularly books on the subject that I
write about. But this time, no such luck. It was school
holiday and then after school holiday the kids didn’t even go
back because they all got chickenpox. And now we are into the
season of kids’ dance eisteddfords, and so we are going
to be busy with that every single weekend up until the end of
the year now. It’s very different in Australia with the school
system. We call Christmas Silly Season and from here on until
the end of the year it just gets busier and busier because, of
course, Christmas is in the middle of summer for us.
STEVE: Which makes it extra silly.
KIM: Yeah. Anyway, excuses aside, we are
getting a lot of really great reviews on the book. And thank
you so much to those who have sent in corrections. I think that
it’s been pretty well proofed now. I still missed a couple
things. Also, last night everyone who has bought the book so
far would have gotten an update with all those corrections and
would have gotten a new copy of it. That’s the great thing
about selling eBooks is you can keep updating them and—
STEVE: And sending them new copies for
free.
KIM: Yeah, and sending out new copies. So
I think that bumps us up to about our 9th update
now.
STEVE: Yeah, there have been quite a few
overhauls.
KIM: Because as we get new information,
new material, people send in suggestions, we can keep updating
them and improving them. But thank you to everyone who has
bought the eBook so far. If you haven’t bought it yet, please
look at the show page where you found this radio show. If you
click the button there, you will straight away get a pdf of a
free chapter of the book. There is no sign up, no other things
you have to go through. If you click it, you will get that pdf,
and you can read the first chapter and see if it’s something you
would want to read a bit more.
STEVE: And we did get a lot of positive
response back from it over the last couple days, Kim. So
congratulations, well done.
KIM: Thank you.
STEVE: So Kim, we better get stuck into
the show.
KIM: Yeah.
STEVE: Come on now, we have to tell
everyone about this crazy, “Truly Scrumptious Otter Medicine”.
KIM: (laughing) Yes. I guess people are
a bit curious about that title. Well, it’s really in two parts,
so I’ve been a bit cheeky there. And we need to break it down
in half because there is, Truly Scrumptious and then there is
“Otter Medicine”, which are two different things but then they
are actually very similar, very much on the same theme.
STEVE: There is a very strong link between
the two.
KIM: Yes, a very strong link between the
two. So first Steve, maybe you can help us out and let us know
who Truly Scrumptious is.
STEVE: Well I’m sure most people probably
know who Truly Scrumptious is. And Truly Scrumptious was the
lead female character in the wonderful movie called Chitty
Chitty Bang Bang from the 60s. And a lot of us, of our
generation and older, will remember it. Maybe some of the
younger generation has been fortunate enough to see it as well.
KIM: Yeah.
STEVE: Truly Scrumptious is a wonderful
character. Am I going to talk about who she is straight away?
KIM: You can talk about whatever you want,
Steve.
STEVE: Well, I don’t want to give it all
away.
KIM: Give it all away, go on, Steve.
STEVE: I would like to talk a little bit
more about the movie first, I think. Now forgive us if you
already have seen the movie and you know all this and it’s your
favorite movie, you may have to put up with us going over a bit
of the old stuff.
KIM: Oh, well then you’ll probably like it
even more. It’s my favorite movie.
STEVE: Oh, it’s a wonderful movie. So
look, Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, the screenplay or the
story for the movie was written by Roald Dahl. And everybody
will remember Roald Dahl as somebody who has written some
amazing children’s books. He wrote some very amazing books for
adults as well, but he is most remembered for his children’s
books and books for adolescents. Now, he wrote this fabulous
screenplay and the lead character is Truly Scrumptious who is a
very beguiling creature. I think that’s even in one of his
songs. Or maybe she says the kids are beguiling, I can’t really
remember.
Now Truly Scrumptious is an incredibly
complex character, if you try and explain it, but we are going
to try and explain it in a different perspective from where we
are coming from today with the title of “Truly Scrumptious
Otter Medicine”. Because she’s not really that complex. She is
actually a very perfect example of what being attractive is all
about, Kim.
KIM: Yeah. Well, I think so. Especially
in terms that she is such a warm and loving and wonderful parent
to the children in the movie, even though they are not her
children. She makes Dick Van Dyke, who is a single parent—they
don’t really explain what has happened to the kid’s mother (as
musicals are often like that). And Truly Scrumptious wears some
pretty outrageous kind of dresses. She is very upper crust.
Her father is quite wealthy. He is a candy maker, and I guess
that is why she got called Truly Scrumptious. Dick Van Dyke in
the beginning is pretty prickly toward her. I think he thinks
she is a bit stuck-up.
STEVE: Well, she clearly comes across that
way. She is very well dressed—over the top well dressed with
the puffy dress, the parasol, and the crazy hair-do.
KIM: But she really is a fantastic example
of a warm, loving and fun parent and having those
qualities—even though the children in the movie are not her own
children. She is fun, she doesn’t mind getting her frilly
dresses muddy and kicking her shoes off to run along the beach.
And I think her hair might even get messed up every now and
then. But she’s not a push over either as a parent. In the
beginning, when we first meet her she meets Dick Van Dyke and
the kids because she nearly runs them down in her car. She goes
in and actually tells off Dick Van Dyke for the kids being left
to run around in the streets.
STEVE: That’s right. She is very
confident when she comes in and tells him he shouldn’t be
letting the kids run around in the street and he should do
something about it. She is very confident about going to do
that. She does come across as a little bit stern, but that is
part of what she was trying to get across, you know, why are
these kids running around in the street? And what are you going
to do about it, sir?
KIM: Well, being a good parent isn’t all
just about it all being fun and games, is it? Being a good
parent is also about being able to set limits and boundaries and
having the confidence to be assertive, particularly when it
comes to the children’s well being. So anyway, Truly
Scrumptious I think is a really attractive character. But I
think what is really interesting about the movie, Steve, as it
develops we get into the characters—is it the King and Queen of
Vulgaria.
STEVE: Yeah, it’s some crazy, made up
European country.
KIM: And the King and the Queen are just
fantastic to highlight Dick Van Dyke and Truly Scrumptious
again, who are the sort of warm and loving parents and then
you’ve got the King and the Queen who don’t have children, don’t
want children.
STEVE: The complete contrast.
KIM: They have actually banned children in
their country and all the children are locked in the dungeon.
This is just absolutely a fantastic metaphor and I think Roald
Dahl is just a genius. I mean, his total life he campaigned
against teachers and parents who were too strict and too stern
and against corporal punishment in school and there is no
coincidence or mistake in this, is what this movie is putting
across. This King and Queen are very childish, as a couple—they
are extraordinarily childish.
STEVE: They are juvenile adults.
KIM: They are juvenile adults who
cutesy-cue each other all the time. There is even a horrible
song in it—(shivers). “My Chu-Chi Face” or something that they
sing to each other.
STEVE: That is my least favorite part of
that movie.
KIM: And the King is just obsessed with
his toys, and they hate children and the children are all
banished to the dungeon.
STEVE: And in the film they even have a
character called the Child Catcher whose job it is to go and
track down the children and lock them up. He was played by Sir
Robert Helpmann, a very famous Australian dancer and actor, who
plays the role perfectly.
KIM: When you look at the two different
couples here, you really see what we are trying to get at the
heart of here, and Dick Van Dyke and Truly Scrumptious (I
actually don’t know the actresses name, I just know her as Truly
Scrumptious).
STEVE: Sally Ann Howes.
KIM: And I don’t know Dick Van Dyke’s
character’s name.
STEVE: Mr. Potts.
KIM: Mr. Potts…okay. Truly Scrumptious
and Mr. Potts are just so lovable and adorable characters that
you just want to know. You would like these guys to be your
parents, I think most people feel when they watch this movie.
You know, I wish these guys were my parents.
STEVE: Oh, yeah. That’s right. That’s
the total appeal of that movie.
KIM: Where the King and the Queen are just
appalling. You would not want to be around the two of them, not
for 10 seconds.
STEVE: Complete contrast. That’s right.
KIM: But unfortunately the King and Queen
in this movie are all too often what it is easy for us to become
if we are not careful, if we don’t get our priorities right, if
we start seeing the children as in the way of love, in the way
of the time we want to spend with our partner. If we start
being obsessed with material things and money and being too
strict. And not growing up ourselves—allowing ourselves to be
childish adults, where we are, you know, just selfish and
demanding. These things really make us incredibly
unattractive. This is where—well, I guess this is a good time
to bring in Otter Medicine, Steve. This is what Otter Medicine
is about.
Now, Otter Medicine is maybe Native
American Indian tradition of the totem. This is not medicine
you actually take. This is medicine, which means gaining
benefit or well being from looking at the characteristics of
animals and seeing what we can learn from those
characteristics. So Otter Medicine is really about this
fun-loving parenting that Truly Scrumptious is so good at. And
otters have got that. They are fun, they are great parents, and
they are very protective, but they will also be great parents to
other otter children, not just their own.
I found a web site about this, Steve, and I
printed off a little bit of something. Maybe you can read to us
a bit about Otter Medicine.
STEVE: Okay, so this is from a web site
where this person has interpreted her version of Otter
Medicine. It goes like this,
“Otters awaken curiosity. They
remind us that everything is interesting if we look at it from
the right angle. With an otter totem, you must remember the
beauty of a balanced female side, creating a space for others to
enter our lives without preconceptions or suspicions. Otters
teach us that balanced female energy is not catty or jealous,
but uses sisterhood and sharing with others. Otter expresses joy
for others. Remember that all of us—both men and women—have a
feminine side. If an otter has entered your life, it may be
time to find some playtime in your life to awaken your inner
child.”
And that is from a web site called
www.linsdomain.com. Thanks
very much for making that available online.
KIM: And I just found that searching for
Otter Medicine.
STEVE: It’s fantastic, isn’t it?
KIM: We actually had one of our
subscribers write to us. She is Native American and knows about
the totems. So she may be sending in something we can email out
as a bit of a followup.
STEVE: Which would be great, because we
don’t run into too many Native Americans here in Sidney, do we?
KIM: No. (laughing) And she can also
perhaps let us know if we are getting this wrong, because we are
not pretending to be experts in this at all. This is my
understanding of Otter Medicine. I used to have some Otter
Medicine cards. They were really nice. I am not usually into
that kind of thing, but I liked them because they were of
nature.
STEVE: I remember those cards. And they
were saying pretty much the same thing, weren’t they, of what I
just read about Otter Medicine as being playful and gentle and
joyous.
KIM: Yeah, that is very much I think the
feeling we want to get across here with Truly Scrumptious Otter
Medicine.
STEVE: I just had to say, Kim, that I am
certainly not an expert at this, not only in terms of knowing
about Otter Medicine, but also about displaying Otter
Medicine. I mean, I really struggle with playing with the
kids. I do tend to be too stern with them, and I do tend to
forget that they are just kids and they need to be played with.
And I am very hard at them. I am looking at that and I do my
best. It is something that I need to learn. I am trying to.
KIM: You are working on it.
STEVE: I am getting there, but I am
certainly not good on any of this, I mean, this is not my…
KIM: And I’ve had to work on it a lot of
the time, but I think it’s something you have certainly found
more attractive in me, as I have gotten better at being a
parent, wouldn’t you say?
STEVE: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Well, you
are amazing at it. You are really good at opening up to the
kids.
KIM: Well, it took me a long time to
learn. It wasn’t something that came naturally to me at all. I
guess, because I had somewhat of a difficult childhood. I
didn’t have a lot of friends as a child, so I wasn’t really the
best person at knowing how to play. I was always very serious as
a child. I was always just reading or working on some project
or being a bit of a geek or a nerd, I guess. But in a way,
that’s where I think anyone has a chance to actually work on
this because it’s something that even if you didn’t have it as a
child and you didn’t learn how to be playful and have that
adventurous spirit—even if you didn’t have that when you were
young, being around kids or as you grow up or any time in your
life it’s never too late to learn.
STEVE: Absolutely. And I think I learned
along the way that sarcasm was funny and sarcasm was a useful
tool to make people laugh.
KIM: Well, it’s all pretty common.
STEVE: And it can make people laugh, but I
think that’s kind of the opposite of where we are trying to go.
Because kids don’t really understand sarcasm.
KIM: Exactly.
STEVE: Well, they kind of can, but they
are not looking for sarcasm. I think we as adults do at times,
when we are meeting people. (And I am speaking from an
Australian perspective here.) Sarcasm is very much part of the
jovial nature of Australian’s socializing. Sarcasm is very
common and you kind of look for it.
KIM: Australians are sarcastic to their
friends.
STEVE: That’s right.
KIM: It took me so long to get used to
that. I don’t know if I ever really quite did when I moved
here. I mean, growing up in the states you are usually kind of
sarcastic to your enemies, but here everyone is just sort of
sarcastic to everyone.
STEVE: That’s right. I agree with that
for sure. What I wanted to point out was that kids don’t really
look for sarcasm.
KIM: No, they don’t understand it.
STEVE: That is one of they keys I just
wanted to share was unlocking the secrets to trying to be more
playful with kids as well, and something I have learned is you
don’t have to try and be sarcastic or clever or too intricate
with your language with your kids. Just being on a level with
them is usually enough for them to put a lot of trust and faith
in you to engage with each other.
KIM: I think that’s really important,
Steve, and I am really glad you brought that up. I feel really
quite sick and disappointed when I watch kid’s TV shows all the
time now. I really don’t like the TV around and the teachings.
The TV gets put down in the garage, doesn’t it, most of the
week?
STEVE: It does.
KIM: Then it gets brought up when
something worth watching is on. It’s a good thing you are nice
and strong to carry it.
STEVE: Yeah, and good thing it’s only a
small TV.
KIM: But I think you do have to be really
careful about what your kids watch on TV and the sort of stuff
you plug into, because they don’t understand sarcasm. And the
jokes that may have been really old jokes to us, they haven’t
heard yet. And so much of what is on TV they are being ironic
and what is the other word for it, where you are making fun of
something….
STEVE: Ah, condescending?
KIM: No, where the story line is making
fun of something.
STEVE: Oh, a parody?
KIM: Yes. Everything is a parody,
everything is ironic, and the kids don’t even understand what is
being parodied most of the time. I mean, it’s like they are kid
shows and they are parodying something the kids don’t even
understand, so all the kids learn from it is just this kind of
ahhh, sort of voice, where everything is sort of beneath them
and sort of sneering. And I think that’s really sad. And I
think that the scriptwriters that write that kind of material
for kids should take a good, hard look at themselves.
STEVE: Yeah, and they should take a leaf
out of Roald Dahl’s book, someone who was the opposite. Roald
Dahl used incredible black humor at times, but that’s not what
you were talking about. It’s not a parody that the kids won’t
understand—it is all on a level that kids would understand.
Can I just jump in here too, Kim. We are
talking about this from how you should treat your partner as
well. We have talked a lot about the kids and Truly Scrumptious
and her attitude toward the kids. And we are talking about our
attitude and how you should relate with kids and not be
sarcastic and be more playful, but this is also about how you
should be treating your partner. It’s no different. Kim and I
work very hard to get this message across and it’s not always
easy, but even with your partner and being sarcastic with your
partner is really not productive. There is a very rare time and
place where it may be appropriate.
KIM: Or funny.
STEVE: When there is a rapport
established.
KIM: And trust.
STEVE: And trust, that’s right. You know,
there is already some fun happening, there is some trust between
the two of you. Everybody feels safe and relaxed, and maybe
you can bring in a tiny bit of sarcasm to lighten the
mood. But really apart from that you need to make the same
approach we just talked about with your kids with your partner
as often as you can, and particularly if you have been in a
difficult relationship for some time where you are trying to
rebuild that attachment, trying to rebuild the trust that
perhaps has been diminished through some pretty horrible
experiences we hear about all the time in our work, Kim.
KIM: I think to come at that from a
different direction, Steve—and I agree with you
wholeheartedly—say if what is valuable becomes more valuable
because it’s scarce, I can’t imagine anything being more
valuable at this point in time than sincerity.
STEVE: That’s right.
KIM: Because it seems to be so lacking.
And this kindness and sincerity that people are so frightened, I
think, to express. Because we have all been hurt, because life
is disappointing, because it’s hard to trust—and yeah, that’s
true. But what happens if you start closing your heart and you
become bitter, it doesn’t protect you from hurt. It really
doesn’t. It just invites you to be hurt forever. And somewhere
that idea that you need to keep your heart open despite the
disappointment, despite the betrayal, despite the hurt, because
the sincerity in this is really just so incredibly valuable.
It was valuable before it even became scarce.
STEVE: Yes, absolutely.
KIM: But now, with how scarce it is—and so
it’s something that if you nurture it in yourself is going to
make you very attractive, because those characteristics are so
very valuable in people, and are in such short supply. I think
it’s just a tragedy that we rob our children of these things too
early.
STEVE: Yeah, well not necessarily us, but
the school system definitely prevents a lot of sincerity from
being learnt. Being able to be sincere only comes with
practice. If you don’t get the chance to practice it, you will
never be able to do it. If you don’t get to practice sincerity,
you are obviously practicing another way of expressing yourself,
and usually that is with sarcasm or narcissism, or any of the
topics we handle in our work here, Kim. The school system is
one that jumps to mind for me, because there are very few
opportunities for us as children to be sincere. Often when we
are young we don’t really understand all the feelings go on
inside us. You know, we understand things like fear and
loneliness, but we can’t really make a lot of sense of them when
we are young. So often we bury our emotions. We experience
hurt from other kids who don’t understand how to deal with
somebody being sincere.
KIM: Yeah, and we put our defenses up.
STEVE: And we put our defenses up. And we
are talking about trying to repair that, trying to bring that
back to a space and time where we can heal that.
KIM: It’s interesting you brought that up,
because there is actually—I don’t know if it’s intentional or
not—but there is actually a bit of that in my new book,
Emotional Stupidity. And it goes back to the work of Gordon
Neufeld, who we are always talking about and we love his book,
Hold Onto Your Kids. But it’s about how important it is
to know when and where it is appropriate to let our unguarded
self show. I am not so na�ve that I think you can go out into
the world and you can just be sincere and innocent, and
wide-eyed and gentle toward everyone because in some situations
that really is going to get you hurt.
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
KIM: In some situations, you really do
know when you need to have a more developed kind of persona, and
a that we all put on to deal with the world. You know,
we put it on when we walk outside the door of our house. And
it’s very important to have that persona and to know what is
acceptable and what is expected of us and what is all right and
not all right to expose when we are in school, as you say,
particularly. Because school can just be ruthless. I think
most teachers do their best, but kids to each other at school
can be just ruthless.
STEVE: We talked about that in last week’s
show about suicide.
KIM: And I get into that in the book,
Emotional Stupidity. But at home should be someplace we
feel more safe and we do feel we are able to be more sincere, to
let our innocence show, to make mistakes, to try out new ideas,
to explore and to learn more about ourselves. And I think what
happens is a lot of parents—because they have been hurt and they
have been betrayed—they think that sometimes they are doing
their kids a favor to be cruel to them in some ways or to
toughen them up or to teach them really early not to be too
na�ve or not to be too wide-eyed.
STEVE: Sure.
KIM: While understandable and perhaps
well-meaning in some ways, I don’t think this is very well
thought through, because really you are not going to protect
your kids by just damaging them sooner. All you are going to do
is you are actually just going to stunt their development.
Anyway, I get into that in the book. And you bring that up with
the school system. It is important we need to know who we are
safe with and who we are not safe with. And who we can show
that more innocent and more sincere part of ourselves too. But
it’s very important we all have someplace in our life where we
can do that.
STEVE: Absolutely. And usually that’s not
a day like when you are in front of the bank and there are 10
people behind you. You just want to be very efficient with the
staff member’s time. And you just want to do your business and
get out, so you are not wasting everybody’s time. There is a
time and a place to be efficient with people.
KIM: Especially you, you can be so
impatient sometimes.
STEVE: Extremely impatient. I
don’t know, others seem to be very busy. Maybe I’ve missed the
lesson of Otter Medicine. I haven’t learned a playful side yet.
KIM: (laughing) No, I think you’ve got rat
in your totem. I mean that in the kindest way, Steve.
STEVE: A very friendly, loving rat.
KIM: (laughing) Yes. Like Ratty in
Wind in the Willows.
STEVE: A little bit pathetic.
KIM: Not a dirty rat. So again, otters we
will get back to. Otters are a great parent. They are free
flowing, have a nice energy, that isn’t materialistic, that is
fun and open to people, that invites conversation and invites
playfulness. If you work on developing being this kind of person
with your kids—or even if you don’t have kids. This is what I
was saying before is it doesn’t even matter if you are single
and you don’t want kids. This same kind of energy and this same
kind of characteristic we are talking about are things you can
learn that will still make you attractive and effective in your
life whether or not you have kids. Learning to be a good leader
who your kids look up to and your kids respect is quite a
trick. I am not saying it’s super easy. You need to be pretty
assertive and you need to be someone who doesn’t let people push
your buttons. And kids really respect that. There will be
teachers in school and in the same class the kids will have the
teacher absolutely in tears, where the teacher in the next class
with the same lot of kids will be little angels with the teacher
they adore, who knows how to show leadership qualities, who
knows how to not let the kids push their buttons, who knows
when the kids are testing them, who knows that they need to show
authority without letting the kids get the better of them—and
that’s very much the skills that we teach in Back from the
Looking Glass and The Love Safety Net Workbook to
help people overcome abuse in their relationships with their
family. So these skills are really important skill—whether or
not you have kids. They are skills that are going to make you a
good parent, they are skills that are going to make you a good
leader, they are skills that are going to make you attractive to
a partner.
STEVE: And as a good friend.
KIM: Yeah.
STEVE: And as a valuable member of
society.
KIM: Yeah.
STEVE: I just want to give you a really
quick example, Kim. I was stuck on a plane with my youngest
son. In the three seats there was myself, my youngest son, and
then in the third seat there was a young mum with her little
baby. The baby was not quite a baby, but she just snuck under
that age where she could have her on her lap, so probably nearly
2. So the baby wasn’t really a baby—she had arms and legs and
was very active. Now, this little girl was very interested in
my son and I and just would not settle, and all she wanted to do
was play with us, which would have been very uncomfortable if I
didn’t have any of those kid skills.
KIM: Yep.
STEVE: I mean, the fact that we were stuck
on this plane for an hour—I mean, a plane is very confined—and
there was no way I could have ignored that kid. So, you know, I
did all the things—I stuck the spoon on my nose, and I pulled
the coin out from behind my ear—all the silly little daddy,
corny tricks.
KIM: That you are so wonderful at.
STEVE: And I also wanted to say—not
because I’m a great person—but it really saved everybody’s time
on that plane. It meant the cabin crew were not having to deal
with a screaming kid, the mom wasn’t under a lot of pressure to
keep the kid off us—because the kid wanted to climb all over
us—it was just crazy. But just those few little skills I had
there at a very superficial level in an hour on a plane, did
really go a little way to explaining of allowing that ease of
children and allowing that interaction to occur can really save
a lot of stress, from other people as well. So your ability to
do that is something you will get a lot of reward from and you
will be rewarded from society as well.
KIM: It will put people at ease, to draw
people in.
STEVE: That’s right.
KIM: And I’m sure you put a smile on a lot
of people’s face also doing it.
STEVE: And made her mom happy. Because
that little kid was a terror.
KIM: Well when you start spreading around
this Truly Scrumptious Otter Medicine, it really does have a
magical effect on the people around you, doesn’t it. People are
just—to use the word you used before—beguiled. That is a very
old-fashioned word. But it is beguiling. People are attracted
to it and they love it. It puts a smile on people’s face and
makes them remember that warm and sort of joyous part of being a
child inside themselves. I really I just can’t say it enough
times—I know this isn’t easy. And everyone becomes a
parent expecting that they are going to be the best parent in
the world, and then their kids get to two, and—wow—I mean, I
used to have to lock myself in the bedroom and I used to throw
telephone books at the bed. I didn’t know what I know now, and
it’s been a long journey learning the things I have learned, and
that wasn’t the best thing for me to do. I could have handled it
better than that. But I did! I used to have to lock myself in
my room sometimes, and I would throw telephone books at the bed
and I would be so angry at our older son, when he was two, and
just used to have to keep saying over and over to myself, “Don’t
kill him, don’t kill him”. It was terrible…that’s awful.
Because kids really do know how to press your buttons.
STEVE: Absolutely. It’s an amazing
journey being a parent.
KIM: And I was weak as water then. I just
didn’t stand up to it at all. I think one of the turning points
for me was when I got a grip of myself and I said to myself—and
I can’t remember who taught me this—but to remind myself in
situations where he was getting the better of me that I was the
adult and he was two, and if I was going to let a two-year-old
get the better of me, that was really a foolish thing for me to
be doing, you know. And the more I let him take charge with his
bad behavior and let him take things the direction he wanted to,
the worse it would get. I really needed to take charge and
really needed to learn how to ignore him pressing my buttons and
take things to a better and more productive place I wanted them
to go and to have some ideas.
STEVE: Sure. And also I just wanted to
mention, Kim, this medicine is something that if you are in a
relationship that has broken down to a point where there has
been a crisis and there is a lot of hurt between your partner
and yourself—or you and your kids, whatever the case may be.
This medicine is something that is going to start rebuilding
that. So even if you are at that stage where you are not sure
how well you are relating, there isn’t a lot of trust between
you two, it’s not healthy, there has been a lot of grief in the
relationship for a long time. If that is where you are at—and I
know probably 95% of the people listening are at that point—this
Truly Scrumptious Otter Medicine we are talking about is very
much the beginnings of rebuilding that. When you say, Kim, that
it’s not easy—it’s not going to be easy. There are all sorts of
steps. You are even going to have try and be like Truly
Scrumptious, and it may not always work. Like you were saying
earlier, there is going to be a time and place. You need to not
only know how to be like Truly Scrumptious, you need to
know when to be like Truly Scrumptious. And you’re
right—it’s not going to be easy.
KIM: And I think it’s important when you
say this is not always going to work. You don’t do this
expecting some instant results and then you get all angry
because it doesn’t go the way you want it to.
STEVE: Sure…well that’s emotional
stupidity, isn’t it?
KIM: That’s emotional stupidity. The
turnaround takes time. Someone who truly has Otter Medicine or
Truly Scrumptious gifts is going to understand that your partner
and whatever are going to test you. And things aren’t always
going to go the happy, nice way that you planned it.
STEVE: Sure.
KIM: And when it doesn’t you are able to
still go off and self-sooth and do something yourself to still
say, “Well, I’m going to have an enjoyable time, even if
everyone else wants to fight and be mean and be miserable.”
This is the way to lead by example, to not let your kids and
your partner pull your strings. In this way, you actually
become stronger.
STEVE: Oh, yeah.
KIM: And you become that teacher that the
kids look up to and the kids enjoy the class instead of the
teacher that ends up crying and distraught and the kids get the
better of. It is really important to find that strength and to
not let them get the better of you. We get into that a lot. I
highly recommend the Supernanny program, if you have a
look at that. This is good for partners too. A narcissistic
partner will also throw tantrums and test you to your limits.
STEVE: That’s right and that’s a story for
another radio show, Kim.
Daniel Goleman in his book, Social
Intelligence, says that kindness was identified as the top
of all characteristics—both men and women—that they identified
and valued that they liked in a partner the most. Now I think
that was a really important link in the chain of what we are
talking about here that kindness—out of all the other
virtues and values that people could identify—that kindness was
the one they most identified—men and women.
KIM: Yeah, it was top of both men and
women’s list. I think that’s really significant and I think
that’s really something to ponder is how can we show kindness.
How can we show our family, our kids, our partner that we are
thinking of them—just in small gestures. And again I think that
it’s important to not be doing it because you are expecting a
certain result is very, very important. You are not always
going to get that result. What people will do is they will
spend thousands of dollars on a holiday expecting that the kids
are going to be happy and the kids are going to enjoy
themselves, and everyone is, because they have these
preconceived ideas of how everyone is going to respond to
their generosity or their plan. And that isn’t Otter
Medicine.
STEVE: That’s right.
KIM: (laughing) And it’s not Truly
Scrumptious, either. It’s sort of off Otter’s Medicine that
gets forced down our throat. I think most of us can remember
situations like that. And of course it’s forgivable. We want
to give our kids things maybe we wanted, and sometimes we have
preconceived ideas of what is going to be fun. You can’t force
that on kids. You’ve got to be open to what the kids are saying
to you, you’ve got to be open about what your partner is saying
to you. I think it’s important, as you say, Steve, this is more
than just being a parent to your children; this is about how you
treat your partner as well. Because I think most of us are
wanting a bit more parenting. I don’t think we ever lose the
desire to have someone around who is warm and protective and who
offers those same kind of virtues and skills that a good parent
does.
STEVE: Yes, perhaps leading you to a wiser
state of mind. We are always trying to grow, aren’t we? We are
always trying to learn and be a little bit wiser and perhaps a
bit more content. And also I just wanted to mention too quickly
that kindness is not only not always going to have an instant
reward—so you need to be prepared for that—but also you have to
remember that kindness doesn’t always have an instant reward,
but it may always be remembered by that other person you are
being kind toward—even if they don’t recognize it right away. I
know that is how it is with the kids. I personally get
frustrated with the kids where I try and extend some kindness or
extend some kind of engagement with them where I am trying to
take them in, and they just take it for granted. I think that
happens in our relationship too, Kim, between the both of us.
Sometimes we are really too busy to recognize that I was just
trying to be kind and reach out—we’re grumpy or we’re too busy
or we are impatient or something else is weighing on our minds.
But if you are kind to someone—kind to your kids, kind to your
lover, kind to your parents or whatever—if you are kind to them
and you don’t get instant results, that is not to say that you
have lost that bit of value you have given them.
KIM: No.
STEVE: That will still hopefully stay with
them later when they are not feeling impatient, or when they
have had their tantrum and they are over it. That kindness
still has currency. And so the whole idea of the Otter Medicine
is you can just give that value out without letting it disrupt
your own equilibrium.
KIM: And it’s a reward in itself. It’s a
reward for you, because at the end of it all, it’s ourselves we
want to be proud of and we want to be able to live with. Do we
want to be a kind, good-natured, sincere kind of person, or do
we want to be a bitter and angry and sarcastic kind of person?
No matter how long it takes to see the results of this start to
fall into your life, it is something worth doing just for its
own sake—just for how it’s going to improve your own
self-esteem, how it’s going to make you feel about yourself. I
teach this to the kids. I say to my oldest son about my
youngest son. And my youngest son is not always easy to get
along with. He’s got Asperger’s and he can be a bit difficult.
He hasn’t got the best people skills. But I will say to my
oldest boy, “How does being kind to him make you feel about
yourself—regardless of whether he is kind back or whether he
notices it.” And he really thought about that. And then I
said, “And how does being mean to him make you feel about
yourself?” It doesn’t matter his response, just be kind to him
because you are going to feel better about yourself if you do.
STEVE: That’s really wise.
KIM: And he really understood that. He
really thought about that a long time and he really went oh,
okay, I get that. I said it’s really easy to be mean to
someone. It’s easy to come back and be nasty. It’s really easy
to let other people get the better of you. You have to actually
work a bit harder if you are going to be the bigger person. But
it’s worth it because you are going to feel better about
yourself.
Okay, so very quickly I really want to
leave everybody with something really simple and
really proactive to do in this regard, because this isn’t
academic, this is not analytical, this is just so easy and this
works so well with kids—being someone who is a good parent.
This works great with adults too—we shouldn’t keep saying kids,
you know?
STEVE: Sure.
KIM: But it’s so easy. You don’t have to
know how to hang the spoon off your nose, you don’t have to be a
great clown like you are, Steve. I think that’s why you have so
much trouble with this sometimes, actually, because you think
that being fun and being a warm parent is about you entertaining
them.
STEVE: That’s right—pulling a rabbit out
of my hat.
KIM: And they love that. They
love you entertaining them. But then you have trouble
building the same kind of rapport as I have with them, and I
know that really bugs you, doesn’t it?
STEVE: Yeah, oh yeah. It drives me
crazy.
KIM: And he’ll be going, “Hey, I’m the one
who pulled the rabbit out of my hat…And you all want to talk to
Kim and not me.” So this little trick is just such an easy one
and it is when your kids come and talk to you or when your
partner comes and talks to you, instead of knowing better,
instead of having all the answers, instead of you having more
clever things to say than what they have said to you—and this is
really important with kids because kids will sometimes tell you
very long and very confusing stories, that it's really easy to
just push aside and go, “yeah, whatever that was about just
doesn’t matter”.
STEVE: (laughing) Yeah, I brush about 10
of those away a day.
KIM: (laughing) Well, then you will be
able to learn something from this.
And then it’s just take the last line of
what they said—just try this and see what happens. Take the
last line—or even just the last word of what they said—and
repeat it back to them as a question. That’s all you need to
do. Or you can just say things as simple as “Oh, really”, “Oh,
did they?” Just open-ended questions like that will allow them
to talk more. They say, “Yes, I’m listening to you, come on
continue. Tell me the whole story.” And you will be amazed at
what kids will share with you if you just do that a couple
times. All the sudden, they spill the beans about all
the stuff that you prying and asking a million questions would
never have gotten out of them.
STEVE: That’s right. You are really
amazing at that, Kim. You are much better at that than I am.
(laughing)
KIM: (laughing) I’m amazing at that, am I?
STEVE: Yes, as a matter of fact you are.
Now look, as a matter of fact, we are running out of time. We
are pushing up to the limit.
KIM: Okay, so you can’t give us an
example. Come on, let’s just try and do it once. Let’s just do
it once.
STEVE: Okay.
Mum, mum, I saw this dog in the park and I
was throwing a Frisbee to it and catching it. Can we get a
dog?
KIM: A dog?
STEVE: Yeah, can we get one? I want to
get one and teach it how to play Frisbee.
KIM: It was in the park?
STEVE: Yeah, in the park. (laughing)
KIM: (laughing) I don’t know if that was
the best example. But it really is very, very simple to do.
STEVE: There are a lot of great tips out
there about that too.
KIM: And you can do it with anyone, not
just your kids. So I will let you wrap up, Steve, because you
are good at that.
STEVE: Thanks everyone. Thanks to Global
Talk Radio for making this happen and especially thanks for
letting us go over by a few seconds. See you all next week.
Take care.
KIM: And don’t forget to download the free
chapter if you haven’t read my new book yet.
STEVE: Yeah, on the page you found this
radio show. Okay everyone, have a great week. See you next
week.
KIM: Bye.
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